Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Joshua Letourneau on January 30, 2009 at 8:48am

Ross, I'm intrigued - a Recruiter requires a 'license' in AU? Can you elaborate? Enlighten me, fellow Grasshopper!

Ross Clennett said:

It's illegal here in Australia to charge a person a fee for an employment service. Career consultants can charge a candidate a coaching fee but they cannot act as a recruiter without a license.

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Permalink Reply by Al Lorber on April 6, 2009 at 8:53am

Yes it is unethical and immoral. It is one thing to charge for getting someone a job. That might not be the current practice but I can see the sense in that one. But just to give someone a bunch of names and phone numbers?

It's just a scam and disgraceful.

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Permalink Reply by Gerry Crispin on April 6, 2009 at 9:36am

Some career coaches, some services providing leads, some resume writers and some folks specializing in interview prep offer helpful advice and counsel as well as effective tactics for a reasonable price. (Typically ranging from a few dollars a month to several hundred dollars for the total service.) In most cases there are free alternatives to these services and their quality is equally distributed from very good to very bad.

The problem, is that there are no standards. There are a dozen career coaching "methods" and none are required to actually operate as a career coach. Anyone can hang a shingle and call themselves a career coach, resume writer, etc. and so there are a lot of sleazy operators scamming the job prep market. Offering to get someone a job for 5-7k ought to be a crime. Caveat Emptor.

$100 for 3 "contacts" is a pretty steep price to pay if I'm reading the Crain article correctly. As an employer I would certainly make note and consider it a perceived conflict of interest. It doesn't pass my smell test and I wouldn't be using that recruiting firm for my positions.

I do like the idea of helping a job seeker applying for positions in their targeted companies by supplying the contact information for the hiring manager of each position applied for as well as a profile of the manager in question. I can see it being done profitably for $5-10 in packages of 25. Add in assistance in finding the leads, applying for the positions and getting an employee in the firm to be a referral and you've got a full job seeker service concierge service.

Two years ago I did several focus groups for a firm (in another country) that was planning to offer an interview coaching service where a candidate could call prior to any interview in any company and be coached through a personal profile of the hiring manager and the specific tactics most likely to ingratiate the candidate during the interview. The cost was a 6 motnh subscription in the range of $30 per month. The company was able to deliver because of its unique access to data.

It is about time that job seekers level the playing field. The only obstacles (and they are big ones) are the con artists who promise what cannot be delivered or deliver but at 100x the going rate.

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Permalink Reply by Al Lorber on April 6, 2009 at 12:39pm

Gerry, You are assuming, that the Hiring Manager wants the intrusion from the public. After all, that is why companies have someone in HR who handles recruiting. Often more than one person. So alot depends on what the industry is.

Also, the OP here, Topjobleads.com
is running this operation coast-to-coast, with a home office in New Jersey. Does he really have that kind of clout in the industry, that he can take someone's C-note from say Montana, and deliver a real service, other than looking up Managers names on Linked-in, or the like?

Think for a minute why he is not just sending the candidates to these golden managers? One of several possibilities. Because if he did have the job order, he would be doing much better to make the placement and get the 25% fee.

1. There is no job, or it's being outsourced, or recruited internally, and the posting of a job there is a formality.
2. The company doesn't want to work with Mr. Probstein, or has enough recruiters.
3. The company gets enough resumes anyway.

I can't see any scenario where this benefits the job seeker. Or that the job seeker's time would be better spent on personal networking, and exploring other career options, and saving their limited funds.

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Permalink Reply by Jerry Albright on April 6, 2009 at 12:44pm

Al - while I'm no fan of charging canadidates for a phone number and email address - I am equally against people (like you) coming here with some sort of agenda. It gets old.

Your profile includes Art VanDelay and a link to Amsterdam as your personal web site. In the words of my niece - "uh, yeah, like, right!"

While stirring the pot can be fun - and anyone taking advantage of unemployed professionals should be uncovered - your approach is pretty weak.

Feel free to put together a real profile and contribute.

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Permalink Reply by Al Lorber on April 6, 2009 at 1:51pm

Jerry, Sorry about my sad attempt at some levity and humor. I have no agenda just to prevent the unwitting from being deceived. I will provide better content going forward.


Jerry Albright said:

Al - while I'm no fan of charging canadidates for a phone number and email address - I am equally against people (like you) coming here with some sort of agenda. It gets old.

Your profile includes Art VanDelay and a link to Amsterdam as your personal web site. In the words of my niece - "uh, yeah, like, right!"

While stirring the pot can be fun - and anyone taking advantage of unemployed professionals should be uncovered - your approach is pretty weak.

Feel free to put together a real profile and contribute.

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Permalink Reply by Jerry Albright on April 6, 2009 at 2:00pm

That's cool Al. We'd love to get to know you better!

Al Lorber said:

Jerry, Sorry about my sad attempt at some levity and humor. I have no agenda just to prevent the unwitting from being deceived. I will provide better content going forward.


Jerry Albright said:

Al - while I'm no fan of charging canadidates for a phone number and email address - I am equally against people (like you) coming here with some sort of agenda. It gets old.

Your profile includes Art VanDelay and a link to Amsterdam as your personal web site. In the words of my niece - "uh, yeah, like, right!"

While stirring the pot can be fun - and anyone taking advantage of unemployed professionals should be uncovered - your approach is pretty weak.

Feel free to put together a real profile and contribute.

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Permalink Reply by Rayanne on April 6, 2009 at 6:40pm

Don't they call that double-dipping?
Unless of course, career management is your only business.

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Permalink Reply by Ross Clennett on June 3, 2009 at 6:42am

Yes, but unfortunately it doesn't mean anything re quality or standards ie all you need to do is fill in the form and pay your money to the appropriaet government department, and you have the licence.

Joshua Letourneau said:

Ross, I'm intrigued - a Recruiter requires a 'license' in AU? Can you elaborate? Enlighten me, fellow Grasshopper!

Ross Clennett said:

It's illegal here in Australia to charge a person a fee for an employment service. Career consultants can charge a candidate a coaching fee but they cannot act as a recruiter without a license.

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