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Permalink Reply by Maureen Sharib on November 19, 2008 at 2:00pm

"RUSING NOT ILLEGAL"
The Recruiting Animal had a Labour & Employment lawyer from Chicago named Charles Krugel on today on the noon Animal Radio Show. When asked if rusing was illegal he said "NO." Let me repeat. When asked if it was illegal to lie to a Gatekeeper to get to where you want to go inside a company he said "No, it is not illegal."

Ethics and laws are two different things. Let's not confuse them.

"A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone." ~ Jo Godwin

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Permalink Reply by Alex Putman on November 19, 2008 at 2:01pm

Great question! As a Christian I feel qualified to answer. I have had much success in this business and have not had to utilize any unethical techniques. The way I conduct my business is a direct reflection and out pouring of my faith. I have actually told the gatekeeper that I was a recruiter and what I was doing (sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't). However, with all the sourcing tools today, getting to the right person is not difficult.

Now, if someone were utilizing unethical techniques, then yes the techniques would be in conflict.

Hope this helps!

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Permalink Reply by Steve Levy on November 19, 2008 at 2:10pm

This thread is like an early holiday present.

I remember a post by John Sumser back in 1998 or so (when he was writing some delicious content for interbiznet) about an HR person at Wrigley's who was adamant that peeling back URLs was unethical - just like peeking into someone's wallet if it were left by a person on a table. Alex, she wasn't the only one at the time who believed this was unethical.

Back to the litany of absurd (and humorous) statements made as part of this thread, here's one question: Which came first - ethics or religion? Hmmm...

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Permalink Reply by Rayanne on November 19, 2008 at 2:30pm

like your style...


bill josephson said:

As a 29 year self-employed recruiter I don't lie when I source--and I certainly don't tell the truth, either. I don't always use my full name when intensively recruiting from a company, give a private line-not main number, refer to myself as a "consultant" when asked, don't specify the company the job's with unless receiving a resume from a prospect, and don't tell people how I got their name other than "phone networking."

I'm trying to be effective while avoiding company detection as long as I can--with small companies you're often detected within 6-10 recruit calls. Do I proudly state my company name when recruiting? No way. That's a sure bet to get a call from Corporate Counsel or Security as when you cold call you can never be sure of how it's received.......found the same response when single when asking a girl out, you never know.

Recruiting is legal. However, we all know the company being recruited out of isn't happy about it and will try to make your life miserable to stop you once discovered--it's in their interest. I'm a dangerous adversary to the company and a helpful ally to passive job seekers. I'd rather the company not know who I really am and not know how to contact/email me even though they know I'm recruiting.

I'd much rather deal with every single recruitee at a company hanging up on me due to corporate emailed memos to "watch out for the recruiter" to find the ones who do want to speak with me versus deal with legal wranglings, even though they'll likely be tossed out of court.

Just my two cents, not believing some of the non 'self-preservation' comments on recruiting I'm reading here.

Bill

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Permalink Reply by Rayanne on November 19, 2008 at 2:34pm

It should only take your reader 3-6 minutes to read a post or a response to a post...,

'nuff said.

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Permalink Reply by Jerry Albright on November 19, 2008 at 3:39pm

Just a quick "FYI" here to all you fantastic staffers - if any of your clients or potential clients does a quick Google on your name - whatever you say here will pop right up.

So, while I have never ever told a lie (except one time I had to tell a girl in high school I loved her - when I wasn't quite sure if I did - but that's another story.....) I would caution any of you who very openly discuss your approach, etc....just remember - your clients are watching!

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Permalink Reply by Rayanne on November 19, 2008 at 3:53pm

mine too...

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Permalink Reply by Sal Petrara, CPC on November 19, 2008 at 4:01pm

Jerry;
I did not realize that!
You are one of a kind!!
Not to mention that white tail season opened early this year in NY and I have a doe tag!!!
Happy Thanksgiving!!!!

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Permalink Reply by Jerry Albright on November 19, 2008 at 4:06pm

Our season came in last Saturday. I sat in the pouring rain for 2 hours then went in for a Kalua/Coffee (a few actually)

Didn't see a thing. Haven't seen anything the 3 times I've been out. One nice thing about Indiana - I bought a lifetime license 15 years ago so I never have to buy another tag. Ever. So whatever the season is - I just head out and start hunting!

Sal Petrara, CPC said:

Jerry;
I did not realize that!
You are one of a kind!!
Not to mention that white tail season opened early this year in NY and I have a doe tag!!!
Happy Thanksgiving!!!!

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Permalink Reply by Sal Petrara, CPC on November 19, 2008 at 4:10pm

Hi Jerry;
funny thing thing is that our season opened up on Sat for the first time in my 20yrs...
Never knew about a lifetime license, have to look into that.
Good luck and hope for snow!!!

Jerry Albright said:

Our season came in last Saturday. I sat in the pouring rain for 2 hours then went in for a Kalua/Coffee (a few actually)

Didn't see a thing. Haven't seen anything the 3 times I've been out. One nice thing about Indiana - I bought a lifetime license 15 years ago so I never have to buy another tag. Ever. So whatever the season is - I just head out and start hunting!

Sal Petrara, CPC said:

Jerry;
I did not realize that!
You are one of a kind!!
Not to mention that white tail season opened early this year in NY and I have a doe tag!!!
Happy Thanksgiving!!!!

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Permalink Reply by Rayanne on November 19, 2008 at 4:20pm

Thanks for the clarification, Maureen..

Maureen Sharib said:

"RUSING NOT ILLEGAL"
The Recruiting Animal had a Labour & Employment lawyer from Chicago named Charles Krugel on today on the noon Animal Radio Show. When asked if rusing was illegal he said "NO." Let me repeat. When asked if it was illegal to lie to a Gatekeeper to get to where you want to go inside a company he said "No, it is not illegal."

Ethics and laws are two different things. Let's not confuse them.

"A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone." ~ Jo Godwin

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Permalink Reply by Eric Beauford on November 19, 2008 at 4:25pm

I find it interesting that you felt compelled to phrase the question the way you did. Did a competitor (either internal or external) that professes themselves to be a Christian do something unethical like "lying through their teeth" in order to penetrate a company and accomplish their goal of locating a qualified candidate by any means necessary?

As for your reference to faith having or not having an affect, I joined the recruiting industry in 1996 and did not yet have a personal relationship with God. However, the "recruiting tactics" that my initial managers were training me on, bothered me greatly. Even then, I did not understand why you would want to start anything that required you to lie in order to be successful. If you have to lie, that means more than likely the ultimate outcome may not be good for someone. I got into recruiting because I enjoyed working with people and creating relationships, and thought how great it would be to help them find jobs while also providing a valuable service to my clients. I know some people don't mind getting busted, but I never felt comfortable even going there in the first place.

Now, my two cents on "having faith". I finally gave up trying to do it by myself, and entered into a relationship with God 6 years ago, and the more I grow I don't know how, personally, I could separate my faith from my work practices. To me the main key to recruiting, and everything else for that matter, is relationships. I believed it before and even more so now, and it would be very difficult to start any kind of relationship with a lie. I know it is polyanna, but how great would it be if we could all be up front, and didn't have to try and figure out everyone's agenda or their angle when they called us....I bet more phone calls would be answered and voicemails returned.

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